An interview with our outgoing CEO and President Bob Dorrance

PETER HAYNES: Welcome to Episode 41 of TD Securities podcast series Bid Out, A Market Structure Perspective from North of 49. I'm your host Peter Haynes. And today it is my very special honor to have as our guest soon-to-be-retiring TD Securities CEO Bob Dorrance. Bob joined TD as part of the dealer's purchase of Newcrest Capital in 2000 and was named TD Securities CEO and group head in 2005, making him the longest tenured Bay Street CEO in recent memory. He is a first ballot Bay Street Hall of Famer, a person of the highest integrity in the securities industry who never utters a word that is not well thought out and is respected by corporate executives, institutional investors, and all of his southside peers. Bob, I know you typically shy away from high praise. But these words needed to be said after such an incredible career at TD Securities. So I guess I'm just going to have to say you got to deal with me blowing a little bit of smoke there. So thanks for coming onto our podcast, and I look forward to our conversation.

BOB DORRANCE: So do I, Peter.

PETER HAYNES: OK. So just before we get started, a quick reminder to our audience. This podcast is for informational purposes. The views described in today's podcast are of the individuals and may or may not represent the views of the firm. And of course, the content of this podcast should not be relied upon as investment, tax, or other advice. So Bob, at the end of August, you will retire as CEO of TD Securities after an incredible 16-year run at the helm of the firm. When you look back on this tenure, what sticks out for you in terms of your greatest memories and perhaps any significant regrets?

BOB DORRANCE: Well, Peter, there are many great memories. I don't know that it would be fair to call out any one particular memory because it's been such a wonderful experience having worked those 16 years in this role. I would say that when I look at what's been very rewarding has just been all the people that I've worked with over the years. It's really been a great place to work. We've recruited a lot of people in many different businesses in many areas. We worked together to grow TD Securities in Canada, in the US, in the UK and Europe, as well as in Asia. And that has been such a pleasure to work with people that were here. And we work together to help create and then-- build, I should say. And then we have attracted some new people and brought them into what has been a very, I think, strong franchise and culture. There were many client events over the course of these years as well in terms of successful meeting of clients' needs, whether they were doing some form of transaction in capital markets or doing an M&A transaction or doing other things that clients need to do, looking at what happened on buy side clients, deal with them as they evolve their structure. So I just think it's been a great place to have landed and worked and grown together with so many people. So I'd say it's the people and clients, Peter, and then the culture that we've helped build here. When I got here, the Underwriting Hope charity was in-- had started, had already been in I think four or five years under way. And that has just grown. And people have embraced it and got involved in it. And I think so give back to the communities in which we're involved. And so I think of things like that as the memories that I'll take away and cherish. There are always regrets. In my case, they usually fall in a similar type of category is that I sometimes think that if I had been quicker to being a bit more risk-embracing, to do things, not wait too long. But I think we usually got there. Just sometimes there were a few things that I think we could have done more quickly.

PETER HAYNES: Everybody in this business wants to race to 100 miles an hour and get there quickly. But the culture at TD has always been to take things a little bit more slowly. And as you say, we get there in the end. What would you consider to be the biggest change in the business from when you started as CEO in the mid-2000s and today, 2021?

BOB DORRANCE: Well, that kind of falls in the same category in the sense of-- I don't know that there's one biggest change. That there's just lots of change. I think that you realize when you look back over time just how business has evolved, and this business in particular. And it has to continuously adapt to the changes that are going on in the economy and the environment in the countries in which we operate. And so we're really needing to change as our clients change. And there's change quite a bit, as you know. I mean, you look at even our buy side clients. I mean, there's been a remarkable change in how investing is done, the size of the investing, the types of investment, the whole public/private evolution. The size of the private markets are quite incredible relative to what they were 15, 16 years ago. When you look at the corporate structure of Canada, of the US, the evolution of the technology sector, the evolution of the intangible economy, the intellectual economy, and all those things. And they've required us to change. The regulatory change in the time frame as well has been very significant. It was '08, '09, the financial crisis came a significant effort to put over-the-counter markets into more limited type of venues with more scrutiny. And that has changed. So we will always in this business have to change to reflect our clients' change. And the greater the pace of change that they experience, the more that we have to adapt as quickly as we can. And hopefully, sometimes lead.

PETER HAYNES: I'm glad you raised the word lead there, Bob, because as I'm listening to your answer, I'm thinking to myself, should the sell side kind of guess where the business is going in your opinion and lead their clients, or actually take the lead of their clients and follow with the services that are needed? What's your perspective on that?

BOB DORRANCE: I think it's always hard to guess and to be continuously and appropriately right. So my view is, be open to the change that clients are going through. Try to understand it as best you can. To the extent that you can help, go and give advice if you see things that are going on in other markets that are now being replicated in a new market. So you can, I think, be a trusted advisor in helping with change transition. But I think it really has to be led by where the clients are going. We have to follow or be shoulder to shoulder as quickly as possible.

PETER HAYNES: Well, it's been 20 years since you joined TD Securities. And I often think back to the day of the Newcrest merger in November of 2000. I was a TD employee. And I was fortunate enough that you kept myself and my winger, Chris Finora, on as part of the go-forward equities team. We like to joke, Bob, in case we've never said this to you, the only reason you keep Fin and me around was because there was a Seagram's merger happening about a month after our Newcrest merger, and you didn't have the index experts. And you needed us there for one transaction. But we managed to hang around 20 years later. And I appreciate that. So I often think a lot about what might have been. So when I joined TD Securities, it was 1995. And I found this out a little bit later on. But it was right after RBC had bought Kidder Peabody's equity derivatives team. And what's not really well known 25 years later is that TD was actually the front runner for Kidder's Equity Derivatives Group. And it was really a last minute weekend change that led Kidder to leave the TD deal team and move over to RBC. Who knows what might have happened to TD and TD's business and TD Securities if we had of, in fact, bought Kidder. I'm curious, Bob. When you look back on your career, do you have any of those what-ifs from the early days where if you'd have taken a different turn, you might have ended up in a different spot?

BOB DORRANCE: I do. I did not know the Kidder story, Peter. I wasn't aware of that. I also did have really strong memories of the Seagram transaction. That was a lot of fun thanks to you and Chris. Yeah, I think there's a few things that I would call out here that had I not left BMO Nesbitt to go to Newcrest I think things would have been significantly different as to how things would have worked in the balance of my career. I'm not saying it would have been bad. But I had been at Nesbitt for 18 years. I was fairly senior there. I had a lot of friends. And I had some very strong partners, though, that had the vision of starting what became Newcrest. And they convinced me and pushed me to join. And it turned out to be a phenomenal experience and a great transition for me at a time in my career when I was in my early 40s, and I could have stayed where I was. But I got sort of pulled into the deeper end of the pool. And Newcrest happened. It helped shape me in my career as well as my life in many positive ways. And then I would also say that TD reaching out and expressing an interest in buying Newcrest in 2000 was also very significant. The industry was changing at the time. And I don't know that we foresaw all those changes that would happen. But it certainly was a very strong place to land the Newcrest business. I'm not sure we would have done as well on our own. And then getting to TD, it opened up many new opportunities for everybody who joined in terms of how to build their careers as a bank, or is a bank had a lot more to offer than being a boutique. Not that that wasn't fun. But the career paths were very appealing. And I think as you know, there were people that retired from Newcrest to lead. And that was, everybody stayed on and really enjoyed the next phases of career and the many things that we've been able to get involved in. So those were two big ones. Newcrest was only five years. But had I not gone there, I don't know that I would have ever changed career. And then coming to TD just represented so many more opportunities to build a career and doing different types of business in different geographies, different products, risk, et cetera.

PETER HAYNES: I couldn't begin to tell you the number of people that called me up after the announcement of the Newcrest merger and said, how long are those guys going to be around for? What's their deal? And then we find out that the payout is something like three years. And everyone says, three years, and they're gone. And think about it. 20 years later, how many senior executives within TD have either recently retired who were Newcrest executives or are still with the firm. It is unbelievable the legacy that that organization has on the footprint of TD Securities.

BOB DORRANCE: I also think it speaks to TD and the TD's willingness to do acquisitions and then bring people in and hang on to the people that they would like to hang on to. It's not just at Newcrest. I mean, obviously, they did it in Canada Trust. They've done it in many other areas. I really think it speaks to the unique culture of TD.

PETER HAYNES: I agree, Bob. It's the willingness to bring in executives from other organizations and have them integrated not just by a brand, so to speak. And you're absolutely right. One of the other aspects, or one of the important aspects of our industry, that is front and center, and quite frankly, I think will be there for the rest of our lives, is ESG. And really, at the end of the day, I think your successor, Riaz Ahmed, will be dominated by the topic of ESG and how TD Securities is adapting to the needs of the industry. Really, we don't go a day around the world without ESG being front and center in the news. And even this week it was no exception when the UN came out with its climate change report, and they sounded a quote, "code red for humanity." TD Securities has made changes to service our clients' needs that are evolving in the ESG space. And this includes with respect to climate footprint. Bob, can you touch on some of these changes that our firm has made that have taken place under your watch?

BOB DORRANCE: Yeah. I think it's a very important part of what we're all faced with. And it will be challenging. And I think as you put it, Peter, we are going to need to continuously adapt, not just as a business, as a society, but we also have to make progress and be as committed to and as innovative as we can in order to reduce our carbon footprint that we're producing. I think TD has done a lot. TD Securities has done a lot. We were very early on the product side of what was happening in the marketplace, particularly in the tremendous efforts and success that we've had in the green bond space. We were early to get involved. We focused on it, had very good people. We had very good support from the bank. And we've evolved both the green and sustainable bond market into the stable credit markets. So I think we need and will continue to do everything we can when it comes to capital markets types of products that are going to be required for the green journey. But the other part, as well, in terms of what we've been working forward is the pivot in our energy business to the renewable space, to the ability to advise our existing clients on their transition to meet their Paris Accord objectives. We're very much taking the view that we're all in this together. We need to help clients transition. We need to be strong and trusted advisors. We are doing that. We're focused on financing renewables. We're looking at all the different ways how we can involve ourselves in things like carbon capture and hydrogen and how we can help build those industries. We're investing our own capital in energy transition funds and working there to see what we can do to help foster the required investment that's going to be needed. The amount of investment is huge, as you know. You can't transition the existing energy infrastructure economy without a tremendous amount of innovation, without a tremendous amount of cooperation, government cooperation, as well as capital. It's a huge focus. And as you say, I think it'll be at the top of Riaz's agenda for quite a period of time.

PETER HAYNES: You mentioned the energy transition. And let's talk a little bit about that community in Calgary. Of all the communities of CEOs that you've gotten to know well in your career, Bob, the number of times I hear feedback from the energy patch executives in Calgary about their relationship with you, it's so strong and so deep. Tell us a little bit about how the conversation on energy transition has evolved in Calgary? And if we were playing baseball right now, what inning of the transition would you say we're in?

BOB DORRANCE: Yeah. Yeah. I'm reluctant to hazard a guess as to the inning. I think it's early in the game. The one thing I would say is that the energy industry-- the Calgary industry-- is very adaptive and very innovative and have gone through a lot of change over the years. So I think it is up for the challenge of making the change. I think I would say at this point in time in the industry and what they've gone through in the last three or four or five years, they are seizing the reins in terms of how are they going to transition their business to be more sustainable, to be more environmentally friendly, to meet many of the large companies that have announced their climate objectives, their transition to 2050. So I would say that they're on the road now to try and figure out how they're going to get there, what they need to do, what help they need. And I think that's critical. There's no denying that they have a very, very important role to play if we aren't going to meet the objectives that we need to as a country. I think it's very constructive. I think there's lots going on. I think we see the ability. And I agree that we have the opportunity to be a world leader in climate transition from traditional energy to renewable energy.

PETER HAYNES: Let's talk a little bit about this traditional energy that you discussed. And I'm going to suggest this is a bit of a delicate topic, Bob. So I'll try to pick carefully here. With fossil fuels needed for some time in the transition to a non-carbon-based energy environment, and yet, the institutional investor is increasingly unwilling to fund any future carbon-based projects, how do you think governments in countries like Canada, where we have such a significant economic exposure to carbon, should balance the interests of the economy versus the climate?

BOB DORRANCE: Yeah. It's a complicated issue. And there's many different facets and answers to that question, Peter. I think critical, though, is that to your point about Canada, of the G7 or G20 countries, we have a larger energy, attritional energy industry. And that's apparent that it's more important to our economy. But equally, I would say that it's also more important to the global economy. We have a very high level of rigorous regulation adherence to climate protocols. Methane release is an example. We lead the world. And I look at it and go, well, fossil fuel is going to be required. The transition will take time. Where should one support an industry that is producing the fossil fuel and an industry that is working on doing the transition? And so therefore, I think the Canadian government-- governments-- have to position ourselves as proactively working to effect the transition journey. But at the same time, we need to ensure that our carbon isn't being replaced by carbon that is much worse off for the world economy in some other venue or country where there are no rules and regulations. So I just think that we can be very thoughtful about how we position the Canadian industry on a go-forward basis. How do we support carbon capture and sequestration? How do we support carbon credit offset trading? How do we encourage the development of a green and blue hydrogen industry? I mean, we have the leading opportunity to do that. But it's part of the infrastructure of the existing industry. So we have to work collectively in order to further the long-term goals of carbon reduction while ensuring that we have the best-- I know we get criticized for saying it-- but the greenest carbon that's being produced in the world currently. We have a very low carbon transmission within Canada. I mean, there's a lot of positive things. I think it's really, really important not to get caught up in the narrative being pushed by regions and countries that don't have to deal with the same issues. Which is not going to be-- it's not good for Canada, but it wouldn't be good overall for the world, either.

PETER HAYNES: Bob, I'm too young to remember this, but certainly my parents would remember. And the days when we were lined up around the corner to get gas because we didn't have energy independence in North America, and we relied on other countries. And that, obviously, through this transition process is just so incredibly important that we remember that it's a journey, and it can't change overnight. I'm sure this is going to be a front and center topic as we go to the polls here soon in Canada. And then, of course, in the future as there's future elections, how Canada is addressing our climate footprint and the regional disparities, as you talk about in that debate. Let's switch gears a little bit here. We'll go into capital markets, an area I know you're always intellectually curious on, as am I. So you got your start in 1977 at Nesbitt Thomson as an analyst, if I recall correctly. And you moved into portfolio strategy after a few years. This meant that people paid your brokerage firm commissions in exchange for your insights. The relationship between the sell side broker and the buy side investor has changed dramatically in the 34 or 40 years since then-- do my math wrong-- 44 years since then. More specifically, when you were an analyst, there was much more direct relationship between the soft sell side services you were providing and buy sides who would compensate you directly for these services. Plus, the sell side controlled a lot of the information needed to build valuation models. And you had a much easier access to the management of corporations. Now, the buy side has its own company analysts. In many cases, it's a voting process that eliminates any direct relationship between service and compensation. And in some eyes, this evolution has marginalized the role of the sell side analyst. How do you see the role of the sell side analyst in 2021 and beyond? And what advice might you have for a young graduate who's considering a sell side research opportunity?

BOB DORRANCE: Yeah. There's a lot in that question, Peter. And I don't know that I have any magic answers. What I do know is that when I started as a sell side analyst, there were far more buy side analysts. The large institutions have the analysts. What happened is that the industry deregulated, and the commissions going lower. And I think the investor side of the street basically wanted to push the analytical capability that they had from their side to the sell side. So the explosion in sell side analysts really happened in the '80s and '90s. And so effectively, the buy side outsourced to the sell side. Market structures changed. Deregulation happens. Technology changes. As I talked about earlier a little bit, private capital explodes, et cetera. And so now you're seeing many evolutions and changes and commissions being far more regulated, as you say, or voting happening. So I just think that the role-- you have to continuously adapt to what it is that your role requires and what does the client want. If something has become commoditized, then that's probably not a perspective place to point your career at. So where do they find value? What is the client looking for? What insights do they want? What type of research do they find valuable? How do you make the crossover between public and private companies? What information can you provide in that context? The markets, as you know, are very difficult. There's tons of complexity. There's lots of noise. So how do you focus your career on trying to have the value that you can for what it might be used by a client? In the past, you used to create a trade. That doesn't happen as much anymore. Now it happens more perhaps because it creates an asset mix decision or it creates a rotational decision within a broader framework. So I think there's lots of opportunities. It's just, look to where clients are going and go there as quickly and with the best intentions as possible.

PETER HAYNES: Actually fabulous advice to our industry. I just find that sometimes it's really difficult for the sell side analysts to sort of understand their value when, as you say, back in the day, their analysis led directly to a trade that they could quantify. And today, their analysis might end up being a trade for another firm. And they just don't get that because of the best execution process on the buy side. It's just trying to make sure they understand where they fit into the overall equation and evolving. And that's, I think, great advice. Let's go back to June 2011. London Stock Exchange and TMX announce a merger. And that would have seen control of our primary stock exchange and our derivatives market shift to London. TD Securities was one of the firms that opposed this transaction. And quite frankly, the firm put its money where its mouth was into the Maple counteroffer along with several other sell side firms in Canada and pension funds. You, Bob, were front and center in this debate as a very vocal critic of the LSE deal and the possible loss of control over mind and management of our exchange. Global exchange mergers were becoming quite common at that time. Take us through your logic to oppose this deal?

BOB DORRANCE: Well, I think it's pretty simple. The Canadian capital markets play an integral role in the economic development of Canada. And we are far more alike to the US than we are to Europe or the UK or Europe in that regard. Capital markets are of interest to retail investors, institutional investors. There's a large participation in investment in capital markets, as well as in the US. Doesn't happen so much in Europe. It's not a big retail market. So there's a different structure. If you look at how the Canadian economy has grown, the raising of its capital, of common equity capital and debt capital in public markets has been integral to that success. That's what's funded the growth and made the economy more dynamic and allowed it to adapt and innovate, et cetera. So I'm a strong believer that Canadian capital market structure has a very important part to play in terms of the outlook for Canadian growth. The stock exchange and stock exchanges now are very important in that infrastructure. They're part of that ecosystem. They need to be totally focused locally and adapting to what clients want, to what investors want, to what government policies are, to what regulatory requirements are unique to the Canadian infrastructure. And so I think it was just very, very important that that doesn't get owned by somebody outside of the country. We have always had enough issues around the branch plant mentality that can evolve if everything is owned externally. We don't need to have a stock market that's owned externally. It does very well on its own. It's very unique. There's lots of things that are unique in the Canadian economy that make up the financing of the various industries that we have. There's just something that mind and matter is critical to have within the country. There wasn't more than that. It's just that I think a view on the part of other banks, as well as other pension funds, that let's keep what we have because it works for us.

PETER HAYNES: And we talked earlier about taking turns in the business. And if the LSE had won the TMX, they wouldn't have been able to do the Russell deal that they did instead, which turned out to be very good for their shareholders and ultimately led to, I think, to the Refinitiv deal, given how they evolved their business model. So maybe that was a good miss for London and a great outcome for Canada. And you mentioned regulation a second ago. And when we think about the business of trading and exchanges, I feel like, Bob, we're getting to a bit of a crossroads. You have on the one hand a push for more centralization and transparency in trading and asset classes such as derivatives and fixed income. And then on the other hand, there is this movement to decentralize, or the DeFi world, as they call it, decentralized trading in instruments such as crypto and stocks. How does this play out in your opinion, Bob? In five years, are we trading Bitcoin and Apple stock on eBay? Or are we still using centralized trading marketplaces to trade stocks?

BOB DORRANCE: Yeah. Gets into the forecasting business again, Peter. I think that the one thing to keep in mind is that the benefit of ultimately a duty to the investor to protect the investor in a marketplace. And that's how the capital markets have evolved as they have with the roles of the OSC or the SEC really are to protect investors. So I think what you'll see play out here is, does the DeFi world-- how will the regulators impose themselves on that and in what form? And can they? And will they? And what is the political will to do so? And we're seeing that on a daily basis. I don't think that the regulators or the governments will take a step back from the system that we already have in the more traditional capital market structure. And so I really don't see ourselves-- TD stock being traded on eBay. When all is said and done, there's probably a lot of risk in what is happening in unregulated DeFi types of markets. And it might be acceptable for a while, but ultimately, those types of structures get tested. And that usually has consequences. So I think that's probably what will happen in the next five years.

PETER HAYNES: The crypto world definitely cheered Gary Gensler's appointment as chair of the SEC because he had a knowledge of crypto, and he was teaching crypto classes at MIT. I think a few months after his appointment now, they're rethinking their view on that because it is clear every day he's getting closer to the crypto world and certainly concerned, I think, about the line drawn between what's a security and what isn't. And that is a collision course. I think we're all seeing that coming. And we'll be watching that with keen interest. In a recent episode of the monthly podcast series that I'm involved in on geopolitics with Frank McKenna, Frank and I discuss the traits of great leaders. And naturally, Frank was filled with anecdotes from the great leaders he's known in his time in politics and in the corporate world. One of the common traits about all good leaders is their interest in reading. I know, Bob, this is a personal hobby of yours. In fact, I think you've told me that you never watch a movie on a plane. You always read. What types of books do you read? Is there a topic? Is it fiction? Is it business? Is it leadership? Is it sports? Or is there a combination of these types of books? And what books are you reading currently?

BOB DORRANCE: I really do enjoy reading. But I also do watch movies. It evolves over time. It changes. I think I read fiction and nonfiction. I've read a lot of history. And I'll get into some part of the history of the Soviet Union or something like that. And I'll want to know more about it, or the history of the Second World War, or the history of the Civil War in the US. So I enjoy reading that mainly from the perspective of why did it happen? What were the leaders doing? Things like that. I like to find an author that I really enjoy and then I'll go deep. I enjoy some business books. I'm currently reading-- I like Nassim Taleb. You have to commit to plowing through his reading. But there's always things there are very worthwhile. So I'm in the midst of reading "Antifragile." So I've read pretty well everything that he's done on the business side. Those types of books I find more interesting than how-to types of things. So that's where I am currently. I figured the "Antifragile" is a useful one to read.

PETER HAYNES: Well, you can thank our colleague Leon Rosen, who used to work with the Nassim Taleb, I think, for probably putting you on to his line of books. And I know Leon can share some interesting insights into that history. Frank also provided some thoughtful insights into your role as a leader at TD. And quite frankly, he was off the charts complimentary. I'll give you a snippet of some of the things he said about you. Quote-- "Bob Dorrance is very simply a sweet man. He has gravitas. He is highly educated. He is very smart. And he's wise. As well, I have to say Frank told us a few stories that might be a little bit out of school." So you've got to tell us, Bob. Is it true that you and Frank were the bad boys at the set meetings at TD, and that you used to whisper scores for Blue Jay and Leafs games back and forth during these meetings?

BOB DORRANCE: I think I'll take-- I'll take the fifth on that, Peter.

PETER HAYNES: Well, Frank didn't. He was quite open about it. But at any rate, Bob, seriously, we look up to you as a leader. I know I can speak for everyone in TD Securities in saying that. But really, at the end of the day, I'd like to know, who did you learn from in your career that made you the leader you became at TD Securities?

BOB DORRANCE: Oh, I learned from a lot of people. And I was truly fortunate. I had some very good leadership in my early days getting into the business at Nesbitt Thomson, and a couple of people in particular. I learned tremendously from my partners at Newcrest because it really truly was a partnership. And there was an opportunity where I was first as CEO, I was very nervous about being in that role. But I got a lot of support and guidance and leadership from them. So that was critical. And then in the last 20-plus years at TD, we just had some tremendous leaders that I worked for. I'm trying to learn from, when you see somebody that is doing something particularly well and that you admire and that you would like to try to do, I talked about not taking risks sooner. So in some cases I could have moved more quickly and learned more quickly. So my one piece of advice would be, if you do see that, be bold and try to learn from those people and see. Usually, they're willing to help. But they're willing to help if you're the one that's taking initiative.

PETER HAYNES: Well, it is important as we finish up here, Bob, that our listeners know that while you are retiring as CEO of TD Securities in a few weeks, that you are continuing on at TD Bank for a period of time. I know in one of our recent calls where you were talking about the management changes, you mentioned how important it was that you quote, "get out of the way for our new leader in TD Securities, Riaz Ahmed." Can you tell us-- our listeners-- a little bit about what your new role will be in TD Securities come-- or TD Bank-- come September?

BOB DORRANCE: Yes. It's really to work with people that are doing client coverage at TD, corporate clients, institutional clients, where they think that there's something where I can help add value. And it's something that I really enjoy doing and I do partly in my role as CEO. But now, Riaz will be running the firm and that team, his team, and that's a great team. And what I want and like to do is work with our clients to help meet their needs and help to grow the franchise.

PETER HAYNES: Well, I'd be remiss, Bob, if I didn't ask you to tell us a little bit about your family. You and your wife, Gail, have two daughters. Can you tell us a little bit about what your daughters are doing? And do you see your retirement as CEO giving you a little bit more time to spend with your family?

BOB DORRANCE: Yeah, they've been giving me grief for a while now, like, why am I working like I'm doing now? Which I enjoyed. And-- but they also know that I enjoy it. So I have two great kids, great wife, great supporter in Gail. I would not have been here without. And my daughters are very independent and very, very challenge-- We have good dialogues. I really look forward to spending more time with them. They're smart. But more than that, they care. They're invested in doing what they're doing and invested with their friends. And they're enjoying what they do. And I'm going to be looking forward to enjoying that as well. Thanks for asking.

PETER HAYNES: Well, Bob, as they say, behind every great leader there's a team. And clearly, that is the case for you. I look forward to hearing about you being able to spend more time with your family. I want to thank you on behalf of all of us at TD Securities. Quite frankly, for Canada's capital markets, for the arts community, which you and Gail are such great supporters of, and for your incredible charitable generosity. And you mentioned the charity work that TD has taken on since you've joined the firm. It's unbelievable how many lives have changed as a result of that. I must also say, thanks again for not firing me in 2000. I get to be here 20 years later to say goodbye to an incredible leader. And while I'll say this might be the end of an era, I think it might also be the start of another one for you, Bob. Thank you very much. Stay safe, and all the best.

BOB DORRANCE: Thank you so much, Peter. I really appreciate it.

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