Women Visionaries in Investing with Wellington Management

Speaker 1:
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Yaron Werber:
Thank you for joining us for another exciting episode in our Biotech Decoded podcast series. I'm Yaron Werber, biotechnology analyst at TD Cowen. I'm super excited to be joined by Jean Hynes, in this episode called Women Visionaries in Investing, to discuss her outlook for the biopharma industry, her career in healthcare investing, her advice to women investors, and her journey to becoming the first woman CEO of Wellington Management.
Jean has over 30 years of experience in biotech and pharma investing. She's the CEO and managing partner at Wellington Management. Since 2013, she's also been the portfolio manager of the Vanguard Healthcare Fund, one of the world's largest healthcare funds. Jean has received many awards, including Forbes 50 over 50, Barron's 100 Most Influential Women in US Finance, 100 Women in Finance's North American Industry Leadership Award, and the Hedge Fund Journal's 50 Leading Women in Hedge Funds. Jean, so great to see you and thank you so much for joining us. I feel like I've known you for so many years and have really watched you grow and you've been such a great partner to us, we really appreciate you having come on today. Thank you.
So you've seen the full range of market cycles from bull to bear markets, and I think Jean, the first time I met you was probably around when I started in 2001, and you've already had years ahead of me. Nevertheless, this bear market does feel different than in the past. It just feels a little bit more durable, it's a little bit more clunky in how the recovery is going on. What's your sense, how do you feel and are we in the early stages of a recovery yet?
Jean Hynes:
Yeah, so when I go back to my history of sort of the biotech cycle, I might not call it a bull/bear, but I think my observation about biotech is that it lends itself to, because you need to have funding and you need to get money from the capital market, it's never a linear line. And so I guess over my 30 years of being a biotech investor, I have foreseen every three or four year pattern of euphoria, sort of like steady interest in the sector, euphoria, and then sort of a downturn, and then another every four years or so. So I don't think this is really different, Yaron, that I've seen in the past.
I think maybe a couple of things that I think are different than the past, and there's two parts of it that I think maybe make it a little different. One is the amount of science to prosecute is just so much greater than an ever has been. Meaning the opportunity set, where we are in terms of modalities and the amount of pathways to go after. It's just at a whole different level than say the '90s and the 2000s. So there was a real period where it was unclear whether we would ever have a real innovation cycle again. So, that part of it is really good and would give you a lot of hope for the future, that we're going to create a lot of value in the biotech sector.
I said at the same time, I would say biotech investing was more manageable. And what I mean by that is that you had a few big cap companies, you had about 200 or so public companies, and I don't know, on the order of 50 to 100 private companies. And just now the number of public companies is a magnitude higher. The number of private companies is probably 10 times higher. And so that just gives people a lot of choice. So I think we'll create a lot of value in aggregate and the need to be really like, who will be the winners and the losers in this cycle, will also, it's just where's that capital going to come from? The capital is being exploit or it's being sent to both public and private companies in the sector, that's very different than the past 20 years. And so I would be overall very optimistic about value creation and just recognizing that the size of the industry, we haven't absorbed it yet.
Yaron Werber:
I remember that there was a day, and I'm going to make it funny, but there was days that every ticker had a zero and X and no vowels. Right? Now there's just vowels and no consonants at all and they all look the same, which is obviously, as you mentioned, it's a part of the challenge is, how do you capture investors' interest and attention span, right? Because we all know it's never a straight line. Right? There's a saying in the industry, go ahead and get your first blow up out of the way, right? It's the second or the third program that's really going to make it and investors then very quickly lose focus. When you're thinking, are we in the beginning of a recovery in biotech or is it just too hard to tell? And it's a little too much right now, indexed to where interest rates are and where most of the interest is in large cap tech still?
Jean Hynes:
So one of my other observations is that if you look at my career, interest rates went from the nine or 10% level down to 0% and now back up to five, maybe we'll get a relief on interest rates. It didn't really ultimately change how much companies were worth. In the end, it always comes down to the science and how much the medicine changes the standard of care of medicine, and that's ultimately what determines the value, because of what the revenues and earnings are. And so I would suspect we have it over, we're over indexing to the absolute level of interest rates at this point, but that doesn't mean there was such an abrupt change that it does change valuation expectations, I think in the short term, but it doesn't necessarily change what the value of a drug discovery is over the medium to long term. That would probably be one of my observations over after following this industry for 30 years.
I would suspect when you go, if you looked at 2021, there was excess across many parts of the economy and biotech was not excluded from that. So I think you've already seen a couple of year, we're in the third year sort of the, from those valuation highs, the excess of '21, you're probably three years into sort of a recalibration. And so we're probably closer to the end than the beginning. And again, it will be, where are we seeing the value creation?
Yaron Werber:
Yeah. So let's maybe focus, we talked a little bit about you as an investor, we'll come back to your career because something we definitely want to focus on, but your new role now in the last few years as being the CEO of Wellington, what are the biggest challenges and opportunities really facing your business? Obviously, there's so much dynamism going on right now on the investor side.
Jean Hynes:
Yeah, so interestingly, I'm an analyst at heart. I've covered the pharmaceutical and biotechnology industry. So, definitely over the last three or four years and maybe a few years prior to that, I've really been digging into the asset management industry, just as I am dug into biotech and pharmaceuticals. Because I really do think as a leader, I need to understand both what's really going on internally at Wellington, but also, what is Wellington's position in the overall asset management industry?
And so I would say a couple of things about that. If you look at what our value proposition is or what is our place in the industry, you have people that are asset owners that they are the ones who either they have pension plans or they owe the teachers, they have liabilities to teachers or firefighters, or they manage, they have the direct relationships with individuals who are saving for retirement or people who are growing their wealth. Our job is to be the manager. So we're not the asset owners or we don't have the direct relationship with the underlying wealth clients. So our job is to be, how are we going to help our end clients grow their assets? And grow it at a rate, particularly for Wellington who's an active manager, how are we going to make sure we're going to grow it at a rate that's higher than an index?
So what I think about the opportunities and challenges, a few things. My business tends to in some ways, it's quite an interesting business because it grows as the asset management industry, the value of the markets over 100 years have grown relative to the productivity and innovation and growth of the economies around the world. And so that's when I think about that, we very much benefit from the world growing, the world being more productive, the world being more innovative. And then our job within that then is to have insights about where that... What's going to grow, where's the innovation happening, and in which specific sectors, companies, governments, etc, will grow? What's that work from a valuation perspective, or is everything overvalued or undervalued? Very similar just to the conversation we had about biotech.
And so for me at Wellington, I would say some of the things that we're really focused on is when you think about that overall economy, where is the asset management industry today in '24 and where is it going in 2030? How much of it will be in the public markets? How much of it will be in the private markets? And how do we best as an asset management firm deliver an outcome for our clients and also, allocate capital? That's one of the things I talk to our employees about quite a bit is, how do we allocate capital to those companies or governments or around the world that are going to really create value for the world's population? So that's a very important part of trying to figure out, where is our place, what's our edge and where we're going to make investments for the future.
Yaron Werber:
And so you kind of mentioned some of the new products that you have. Wellington is [inaudible 00:11:00] only fund, now obviously you're offering hedge funds and private products as well. And the environment in general obviously, the headwind to asset managers has been the passive and ETF traction. What is Wellington doing really to stay innovative, in terms of new products and philosophies?
Jean Hynes:
Yeah, so I think that maybe one of the misperceptions about Wellington is that we do one thing. And actually, if you look over my three decades at Wellington, we've evolved quite a bit. So when I first came, my first couple of years, people would've identified us as a US value manager. And we have, we're totally different now, three decades later. So I would say in the 1990s we really evolved into all sorts of equity investing, mid-cap, value, growth, capital appreciation. In the 2000s we grew by globalizing our equity approaches, as well as really growing in fixed income. So I would say around 2003 or '04, we were very heavily dominant, dominant in public equity. And then over the next decade, we really grew our fixed income business, and so now we're really quite balanced from a equity and fixed income business perspective.
And then we are not new into hedge funds. So we've been managing hedge funds for 30 years. I actually managed, I was a hedge fund investor alongside my long responsibilities for 20 years. And so with the skill set we've had, but what we're doing is really, really investing in the business to make it great. And so we should be a really good place to generate long short spread because of our deep, deep fundamental research. And so that's an area that we are focused on.
And then 10 years ago we started investing in our privates business. So I think before, 10 years ago we would've considered ourselves a public active asset manager and now, and thanks to some of our great public growth investors who recognized really early this trend of companies, more companies in the private sector and also more companies staying private longer, we decided to start first a private fund, and that's focused on late stage venture growth investing. And then over the last decade, we've also built a biotech privates, climate technology privates, a fund that's focused on diverse founders, early technology, diverse founders. And then the last couple of years really growing in credit. So investment grade private credit, venture debt.
And we have a roadmap for, where does it make sense for Wellington? And I would say any. So I think we think of ourselves as an active manager on the public private side, and what we're really good at is valuing securities and seeing the future. And there's lots of adjacencies to our public business that we can exploit. And there are parts of the private market that doesn't make sense for us as well, that we wouldn't necessarily have an edge. And so those areas are less interesting to us or it just wouldn't make sense for us to really, there's lots of great companies who do direct lending or do public private equity buyout where you run companies. That's just not a skill set, that's very... it just wouldn't be where we would have an edge versus some of those great firms.
Yaron Werber:
So you definitely mentioned some of the challenges and some of the tailwinds for you and kind of directionally where you want to go. Investing has changed a lot, right? When I started 20, 25 years ago, a little less than that, it was less crowded. As you said, there were fewer companies and you can really get an edge, that the knowledge base wasn't as robust potentially as now. And you can really differentiate now, there's a lot of funds, a lot of smart people, a lot of consultant, and it's crowded both from an investor perspective and also competitive perspective. Back in the days if you had a great idea and an asset, there was no competition, now you can very quickly see eight followers. So as you think about how investing is going to change in the next 10 years, what jumps to mind for you?
Jean Hynes:
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right, that the level of competition in the investment business has risen. When I think about the people that we hire today at Wellington and their skill set, it's just like an amazing skill set. So we've been able to attract PhDs and MDs, and though we didn't really compete when I started, I didn't really compete with people with this deep, deep medical knowledge. And so I think it's sort of table stakes to have... And I got to grow and we will probably talk about that, but I got to grow my medical knowledge while working.
Now it's sort of table stakes to start with that medical knowledge, and I'm going to be specific to biotech and pharma. So there are a lot of really smart people. There's a lot of people who understand medicine, and it still though comes down to maybe the advantages that we have. And I think this will go even more, will go further in the future. How do you spend your time on those insights? Really spend your time on the insights. And how do you elongate your timeline? The long-term timeline I think is still the differentiator that has not been ETF or passive or there's more players in the market that have a very short term timeline. And so I guess I would be very nervous if everyone adopted a really long timeline, and most people are not suited for that. So I think we think we're okay.
I am one of the longest term investors at Wellington. I have a pretty low turnover, and that's something that is less prevalent today than it was 10 years ago, years ago.
Yaron Werber:
Which is really sort of how value is created, right? There are times when I'm literally spending 20% of my time talking to people, whether a print of 47 million in the quarter is really a lot better than 46, and it's got nothing to do with where value is created. And a lot of times, to your point, people really lose the value creation pathway.
One of my biggest calls was Celgene my career, and I almost downgraded it at one point a long time ago, because I thought the phase three data is going to get pushed out. And I literally submitted a downgrade note and at 2:30 in the morning I woke up in cold sweat and pulled it because I'm like, who cares if it's going to be six months late at the end of the day. The data, by the way, ended up coming a month later. [inaudible 00:18:08].
Jean Hynes:
Yeah, that's a great story. I don't think you shared that with me. That's a great story.
Yaron Werber:
100% true story, that would've made a huge difference in my career. So let me turn over to your career. So you've had an amazing career. You started at Wellesley and you really came into an amazing franchise, an amazing group, and really worked your way up and gained a lot of responsibilities along the way. What was really the secret to that success and that progression?
Jean Hynes:
Yeah, so as you said, I graduated from Wellesley College. I had an internship at Wellesley connected to a class I took, and that's how I was introduced to the stock market. And so because I had an interest in stocks, that's how I found my way to Wellington. Now, back in 1991, the asset management industry was not as prominent as it is now, and the stock market wasn't as prominent as it is now in everyday life, because so many more people own mutual funds, etc. So I was lucky enough to find my way into this great industry and actually to a great firm early, my first job out of college.
And I would say, and let me just, maybe I'll talk about my three decades shortly, and then we can go into whatever way you want. But I do think that first decade for me was one, being really lucky enough to get to work with my great mentor, Ed Owens. And I was about a year and a half into Wellington when I got to work with him. And interestingly, it was because I was a good writer. I wrote our morning meeting notes once a week, and that's how I got recognized by Ed and they asked me if I wanted to work with him.
I'll tell you a funny story. I'm like a nine on the extrovert scale, and Ed is a one. You know him, you've met him many times. He's a one on the introvert scale. And so I almost didn't want to work with him because he had walked past my desk every day for 18 months and never said hello. So I was like, why do I want to go work with him? But anyway, it was such a great... I'm glad I did. And from day one, he brought me to every biotech meeting, every pharmaceutical meeting, over those early years to many client meetings, in fact. So I got to really early learn about clients.
And then I told you, I kind of grew up under his umbrella, but I progressed every year. I took science classes, I took accounting classes, and I just was able to grow my impact sort of slowly and at my pace where I would say I learned to be a great researcher under Ed in those first five or six years before, and then began to get my own sort of independent coverage. I don't think young people today would've had the patience of my... I kind of think it was really slow, and then it was really fast because I had this amazing base working with Ed.
My second decade is really about becoming a risk taker and a portfolio manager. Taking risks in portfolios focused on pharmaceuticals, focusing on longshore, just becoming many flavors of running biotech and pharmaceutical portfolios. And then the third decade is about becoming a leader, and that would be taking on the team leader responsibilities, becoming a generalist healthcare portfolio manager, becoming a managing partner at Wellington 10 years ago, and then progressing towards the CEO role.
So we could talk about any of those, but I do think there... I guess if I had to say anything, each decade or every five years, I sort of learned new skills or I was stretched in a way that allowed me to learn new skills, and that sort of prepared me for more responsibility. So did I say in 1991, I'm going to be CEO of Wellington in '24? No, I didn't even say it 10 years ago, but I guess I just try to do really well in every opportunity that I was given. And I was given a lot of amazing opportunities to grow and to learn, and so I think that took me in different avenues over these 30, 33 years.
Yaron Werber:
And as you think about two or three moments, landmark sort of goalposts in your career that led to that advancement every time, what comes to mind?
Jean Hynes:
Yeah, I'd say number one is working with Ed, right? Clear, the most pivotal, if I had to say one, it's the most pivotal moment, getting to go work with Ed. Number... And we had so much fun. I mean, it was like work was fun. It wasn't work, it was just we had so much fun every day following this industry.
I would say at the end of the first decade, I was given the opportunity to run a biotech portfolio by myself with a big pension fund in the US. And interestingly, our CEO at the time was retiring. He was the last CEO that actually ran money like I am doing now. And he loved biotech, I mean, loved biotech. I actually just saw him last week. He's 91 years old, he's still asking me about biotech. And so he had Yaron,, I'm going to bring you back to 1999. He had 30% of his portfolio in biotech in June of '99.
Yaron Werber:
Wow.
Jean Hynes:
And so he knew inherently that any other portfolio manager might have five or 10%, but they weren't going to keep the 30%, and so he was a sponsor. He convinced the client to give me a chance, and I was 30 years old. There weren't that many 30-year-olds running money and there weren't that many 30-year-old women running money. And so that is a pivotal moment to really have, to get to run a broader portfolio. And I found out, he retired June 30th. I found out I think July 2nd that I was pregnant with twins.
Yaron Werber:
Oh, wow.
Jean Hynes:
And then a few weeks later, I flew down to see this client and the client could have taken a step back and say, "Hey, this is a lot of money. We're not..." But that client gave me a chance too. So I would thank them for giving me a chance too, and I think they were served really well for quite a long time by having that biotech portfolio.
And then I went to London in 2007 and '08. So Wellington was expanding, we were always in Boston, we were expanding globally, our investment platform. So I moved my family, I think you know, I have four daughters. We moved over to London and I think that was hard because I'm from a very large Irish family. I left my cocoon, I left Ed, I left my cocoon of my family and friends, but I think it was a huge growth opportunity, a rich growth year for me. It was a huge growth year for my family as well. And so I think that began my leadership journey that I think prepared me to first take on be Ed's successor, to be the team leader, to be managing partner. That was a pivotal year of learning about who I was and what motivated me and being even a better teammate to my teammates.
Yaron Werber:
Why did that happen in London, by the way?
Jean Hynes:
I think it happened in London because just serendipitously, one of my colleague's wife, they also moved at the same time. She was an executive coach and she didn't have any clients in London. And so I was going through a little bit of an issue and my colleague said, "Why don't you talk to my wife, Colleen?" And I think that began my journey of coaching, which I think has been a critical part of my career and my success.
Yaron Werber:
So, very serendipitous but transformative.
Jean Hynes:
Serendipitous and transformative, exactly. And then I would say I became a managing partner. Now, the managing partner role at Wellington is about the governance of our partnership. It's about talent, it's about promotions, and it's about compensation. And I love the managing partner role. So back in 2014, I had my portfolios, I was team leader, I had been elected a managing partner, and I thought that's how I would end my career.
And so I guess another new coach at the time, I had just done a year of coaching as I became a managing partner, said, "Do you want to be CEO?" She said that early in the year and I said, "No, I have no interest." I couldn't see myself as CEO. And then at the end I said, "Well, maybe." As I started working really closely with our previous CEO, I said, "Maybe." And so that began a journey of, did I have the right skills? If I didn't have the right skills, how would I acquire them? Did I want to do it? Was it something that interests me? Because I think you have to have a real passion for to be in many roles. And this role, I think requires a passion for wanting to serve and serve our 3,000 employees and shepard company for the next 10 years and hopefully that shepherdess will help for the next 50. And so it's, could I do it? Did I want to do it? Was I the right person to do it? And so I guess that period was a pivotal period.
Yaron Werber:
Yeah, because you're also as a CEO, you're very much a coach player, and the team's biggest cheerleader, and you need to hold people accountable. So there's multiple roles which makes it, I would think even more complicated than if you were an investor as well.
Jean Hynes:
Yeah, I think that the skills of investing that I think are very complimentary and similar is that you actually are taking risks all the time as a CEO, because in the same way you need, you're working with imperfect information. You're making bets either with people or on how you're going to make a bet with an investment, in terms of a research allocation investment. And so that, being able to operate in the gray with imperfect information, which is sort of the hallmark of being an investor, it's not... that job, being an investor, that kind of skillset is very different than most jobs in the economy. And so that, I think actually that part of it is something that really is a very good skillset to have as a CEO.
I think the other skillset, which is not all investors particularly on the public side, most are introverts. I'm not an introvert. So actually having that, because you're on all the time. So that ability to both being able to make decisions and take risks, the ability to be really analytical about the business and where you are, and the ability to connect, sort of intersect things that give me energy and passion.
Yaron Werber:
Yeah, and one of the things that you just said really resonated, and that's the concept of being very analytical and objective. I would add that in, about your own business. And I spent four years as an operator and one of the things that I always thought when I was on this side on Wall Street is that whatever we know everybody on the other side as an operator knows, and they would know a lot more than we do. And once I was actually a part of that team, I realized that we actually have very unique skills that we learn here, that people on the operational side have very different and complementary skills, but they don't necessarily have our skills. So, do you find the same now, because you can, and you have the objectivity to understanding really where you are and how that translates into value, and that piece that sometimes on the other side people don't always have?
Jean Hynes:
Yes. One of the things when I interact with CEOs in many different industries and I explain what, because many of them interact with, they're interested in Wellington because many of them, where they're shareholders, they interact with us quite a bit. And one of the things I tell a story. I sat next to a CEO of a major energy company about a year ago and one of our... And he was telling me this story, he had been at this company for over 30 years and had become CEO. And he knew one of our portfolio managers who's now retired. And he said, "The interesting thing about..." So he had risen up the company, kind of like I've risen up about to Wellington, but our portfolio manager knew more about the C-suite over those 30 years than he did about the C-suite over those 30 years. So it was kind of an aha moment for me.
When I talked to other CEOs about what are... You should value the fact that you, your own on the sell side, us on the buy side, we spend 100% of our days learning about one industry over time. There is a real value to that that most operators who grow up in a company don't know and they don't have. So I always encourage them, take advantage of that time series.
Now, you as an operator, I know more about Wellington than if we were a public company, but I don't know as much about the industry as my analysts who cover the asset management industry. So you should really take advantage of that knowledge over 20 years, over 30 years, over 15 years, and at any one year you know you're talking to all 100 or 200 companies in that industry and the ability to know more about the industry that any one CEO or any one operator can. It's really quite different. It's like a privilege to do what we've done.
Yaron Werber:
Yeah. Let me ask you a question in terms of, now that you've been in your role as CEO for a few years, what has been something that you thought was going to be hard and ended up being easier than you expected? And what about something that you thought was going to be easy and ended up being harder than you expected?
Jean Hynes:
Well, I think the second question is probably, what did I think was going to be easy. I think it's more about, you have a vision, you have a strategy, and just execute. I think what's hard is that you're not executing in a vacuum. You're executing when markets go up in '21 and markets come down in '22, and wealth clients and interest rates go up and wealth clients. So I think it's been a particularly very busy, not operating in a vacuum kind of period to be a leader in the asset management industry. So that is like, you just had to constantly pivot because the information has changed and how do you then keep an organization focused five years out or 10 years out, but still executing and pivoting for where we are, the reality of where we are, and what's happened in the markets and with our clients. And so that has probably been, just it hasn't been a linear period.
I think it's interesting, what I think is what's been easier than I thought was hard, is I think my skill set at analyzing companies and backgrounds. I think trying to say, "I'm going to analyze our industry really and figure out..." And using that skill set to help not just myself but the firm, help with our direction. I think that was one thing that's probably been a skill set that I've leaned into better than I would've expected. When I became CEO, I talked to about 30 healthcare and maybe asset management CEOs. People gave me, people are so excited for me, they really gave their time and-
Yaron Werber:
Wonderful.
Jean Hynes:
One of the things that the one universal thing they said is, two universal things. One was, make sure you have the right team because like you said earlier, I'm not making many decisions. Really, the only decisions I make are who are in those management seats. And universally, everyone said they took too long to do that. So I actually, the fact that I had that, I have that knowledge from 30 people has always been in the back of my mind. Every one of the seats that manages all of our employees, they have to be the right people at the right time. And so that might be something that I learned really, really early.
Yaron Werber:
Wonderful. So I want to talk about and why I was really excited to have you on, is we're also definitely focusing on the role of women as entrepreneurs, as operators, as leaders. And I grew up, I have two older half sisters and two sisters. So I'm the youngest with four sisters. So, and I grew up in the '70s and my sister would literally drill into me girl power. And I remember, back in the '70s, and I grew up in Israel, which was probably a little bit behind the US, sort of in advancement, although Israel is pretty modern. And I have two kids, older one is a daughter, so I've been drilling girl power into her since she was two and now she's like, "Stop it already with the pep talks." And so you're really, one of the very few CEOs that you've alluded, who really shattered that glass ceiling.
You talked already a lot about your journey. Was it ever lonely? Sometimes when we ask women, they would walk into a room, it was only men, and that kind of lasted for years, although that's been changing. And I was sitting at our therapeutics conference just a week ago and I actually looked at the audience, it's probably 40% women now. It's like unheard of, it's terrific. Right?
Jean Hynes:
Right, yeah.
Yaron Werber:
Should really get to 50/50 or even more than that. So, how has that been like for you?
Jean Hynes:
Yeah, so I would say that I told you that I got to work with Ed very earlier in my career and it was always about impact and not about sort of stereotypes of being a male or a female. And so I guess I was lucky to be able to just learn and grow.
But I would say there were that were not that many female investors even at Wellington, and you were in the industry, there were very few. And so I would say I had a couple of mechanisms or things that helped me along the way. So when I first had my first child, I remember getting together with other women across Wellington, not necessarily investors, but other parts. And we would ask some of the women in one or two generations ahead of us, "How did you do it? How did you have children and work?" That they were really in another generation. So I would say really got some really great advice about childcare and what's important and what's not important, and how do you manage being a mother and a full-time employee in a job like this over time? It changes over time. And so I can actually remember those meetings and having those aha moments.
So one of them, for example, and you didn't follow everyone but you took something from everyone and someone said, "Having dinner is really important." And that became something that we did as a family. I was at dinner almost every night that I wasn't traveling. Dinner was sort of, this is a time we're together. And so those kind of routines I think really helped me be a working mother in a field that is demanding. And so I would say I had my role models and support groups and people that were going through it with me. I think that was really important, particularly in those early years.
And even now, I would say I have dinnered with other female CEOs. There are things that I do even now because being our... And I have lots of support from male CEOs too, but there is something special about women going through it at this time of this junction and time together, and how can we learn from each other. So those are maybe some of the things that have helped me progress.
Yaron Werber:
And what advice would you give young women, both maybe in the biopharma industry itself and on the investor side, as they really start their careers?
Jean Hynes:
Well, I think I said before, I have four daughters, so I try to instill girl power into them as well. I think the couple of things, one, this is about being a person, right? Work, it's a long, 33 years is a long time and you spend a lot of hours. You need to do something you love. And if there ever comes to a point you don't love it, is it because of the company or is it because you are stagnating? You need to have, you need to be... And that doesn't mean you're never going to have stressful days, because there have been plenty of stressful days, but how do you make sure you're doing something that you really enjoy all the time? That would be in a company that you highly respect. But make sure the job is enjoyable, that you have a passion for it, and if you have a passion for it, you're more likely to keep learning and having impact. And then make sure you're working for a company with high integrity that treat people well and that are going to help you grow.
I think then this is for everyone too, but I think it's particularly for women because women are, as you said, that we're still the minority in firms, but yeah, making a ton of progress. You can't do well if you don't get feedback. And I do think it's true that people are more comfortable giving feedback to people that are more like them. So you might have to go out of your way to make sure you're getting that feedback. So you need to be accepting feedback well, and you need to so that people will keep giving it to you because the more feedback you get, the more likely you're going to be able to pivot something that maybe isn't working or you're going to get feedback, like you're doing... Getting feedback is both constructive and positive. If someone gives you positive feedback, then you should be leading with that all day long, that someone says you're really good at that. Then how do you become even better at it? And so making sure you're getting that feedback is critical.
Yaron Werber:
Yeah, and in different cultures, in some cultures, women are very much given the reins to speak up. right/ And in other cultures in the world, it's not quite as advanced. And I think we see that even in modern America, as we... and more and more women. So for people who manage women from different cultures, any advice about how to empower them and incentivize them to maybe come out of your shell a little bit, maybe a cultural shell a little bit and speak up and be visible? And we want you to. You have the ability, believe in yourself and don't be afraid.
Jean Hynes:
Yeah, I think it's about understanding there's a diversity of ways of working and a diversity of personalities, and I'm not going to put this is female versus male, but there's probably a propensity of women to not want to debate by fighting. I certainly don't. And so, but that doesn't mean you don't want to debate. And so how do you create environments where it's okay to be really direct and make sure those... You don't want an environment that's too nice because you won't get the real truth, but how do you have those kind of places where people of all different kinds of personalities and cultures feel comfortable, that you're creating an environment where people can really have debates and share their perspectives in a very authentic way? That takes a lot of work, and when you have it, it's so powerful.
Yaron Werber:
In a safe environment where people are respected and you have a common goal, to really achieve the best that you could do.
All right, we're getting to the end of the podcast and this is my favorite part. It's a little personal touch and humor to really get to know people, and you've been already so open and so we really feel like we're getting to know you already, for those of us who don't know you as well. What's been one of the hardest challenges in your life and how did you overcome it? It could be personal, it could be professional.
Jean Hynes:
Yeah, I would say, I think on a personal level, I've been very lucky. I mean, very lucky, personally. I think when my father passed away in 2017, that was probably, it took a long time to get over that. When people lose their parents, I just have this real, gets right to the heart, right? Because you never really get over the fact when a parent dies. I think that surprised me how much. But otherwise, I've had tragedy where family members have passed away too soon.
And then of course, as I said earlier, this job that I've had for 30 years of being an investor is hard. Right? And so I think I've had periods where you've had some really difficult drawdown, but that's part of the business. So I guess I would say I've had moments both personal and professional where I've had my moments of doubts and moments of like, this is not, this is a terrible year. And you feel so much for wanting to serve your clients, but those are moments versus I guess a lifetime of being happy and joyful.
Yaron Werber:
Yeah, and what allowed you to get through it? How did you pull yourself out or what was that inspiration or that drive or that solution?
Jean Hynes:
Yeah, I think all of them is around surrounding yourself with, either at work, colleagues that help you. I think whenever you're going through a drawdown, it's really about, are you early, are you wrong? I think being an investor, you kind of go from stubbornness to wishy-washy. I was never on the wishy-washy side, and so it would be like, am I being stubborn, or stubborn to high conviction? Where am I on that? And just having people push me, having people to debate and not go through anything alone at work. And then I think the same, I just have an amazing group of family and friends that are always there to support and celebrate life with.
Yaron Werber:
Yeah, and that's super important. So if you can have one superpower, what would it be?
Jean Hynes:
What is my? Well, if I had to have one, you mean if I had a superpower, what would it be?
Yaron Werber:
Yeah, if you can choose a superpower, what would you choose? And maybe tell us also, what is your superpower now?
Jean Hynes:
Yeah. Well, I guess if I had a superpower, it would be, I think it would be flying so I could get places faster. I love the world so I could get there faster. Wouldn't take up as much time. So that, yeah, I mean, it would be to get places faster so you could do more. I love experiences. I think if I had to say, I call them not superpowers, but super strengths, because I think everyone has strengths, super strengths and things that they, weaknesses that they have to overcome.
I think my two are connected and it's both connected to being what's made me successful as an investor and it's what I think is making me, helps me really as a leader. And that would be, I'm a super dot connector. The ability to recognize patterns, connect docs. When I think back over my career, using, hearing something from you and then hearing something, another data point from a company four months later, and then finally having an aha moment about a direction. That is, I think that helps me now and I can see that as one of the ways that helps drive strategy. And then I am a connector. Right? So I think having long relationships both for my employees and my colleagues, as well as with the biopharma ecosystem, I think that's helped me do my job. So, both of those are things I lean into a lot.
Yaron Werber:
Yeah. Well, Jean, thank you so much. You've been very generous with your time and very, very open and really allowed us to really understand who you are and what made you successful. And really, you've been such an inspiration to all people in this industry. We've all known you for many years and you're like one of the pillars and fixtures of the industry. So thank you so much for joining us and we'll continue to follow closely what you do.
Jean Hynes:
Yeah, thank you, Yaron.
Speaker 1:
Thanks for joining us. Stay tuned for the next episode of TD Cowen Insights.

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